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Author Topic: Quarantining in Shared Spaces -- how to keep others as safe as possible  (Read 787 times)

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gv_twiitterpated

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After the huge spike in new cases this past week, including our dear Data Report, I thought to pull this article from my archives -- it gives some excellent breakdowns on basic principles regarding aerosol science and how to leverage physics to minimize airborne transmission in shared spaces when one or more household members are Covid-positive. 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/news/how-isolate-home-if-you-have-covid-19-while-keeping-other-members-safe-147416

[ The original document for the ventilation diagrams, plus other useful information, can be found here: https://cleanaircrew.org/someone-in-my-home-has-covid-how-do-we-isolate-safely/ ]

The article is in an Indian publication and therefore references dealing with heat mitigation -- given that it's December in North America, the opposite problem is more likely to be relevant.  The UK government released guidance several years ago around how best to ventilate when temps are below freezing, this is one of many such write-ups: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ventilation-to-reduce-the-spread-of-respiratory-infections-including-covid-19#:~:text=Consistent%20house%20temperatures%20at%20or,lead%20to%20fewer%20cold%20draughts.

Some added tips from the one time our household dealt with keeping infection contained (all of the following assume well-fitting >n95's are being worn in all common spaces):

- for shared bathrooms - where any or all of the following apply: keep a window open at least a crack, keep the exhaust fan running 24/7, keep an air purifier in the bathroom running on at least medium, and keep the door closed with a rolled towel or blanket blocking the bottom of the door.  Use a timer on the door to keep track of how long it has been since someone last used it, and allow at least 30 minutes to go by before the next person enters.  This is especially important if anyone will need to unmask in the bathroom (brushing teeth, showering, etc).

- for eating/drinking - All household members should unmask and eat only in their own rooms, not any of the common areas. If possible, use compostable plates, bowls, cups, and utensils for any food served to the infected person -- a fresh set for each meal (disposables can be used if compostables are not accessible). Have them place all used dinnerware after eating in a tied off bag that can then be disposed of (if you have municipal compost service and are using all compostable dinnerware, use compostable bags as well and then the tied-off parcels can be deposited directly into your compost collection bin).  This routine prevents virus from making its way back into the kitchen and into contact with other family members, as well as preventing re-exposure for the infected person.

- nasal rinsing - this was something the sick folks in our household did not start doing until about halfway through their infections, and they immediately regretted not starting sooner.  Nasal rinsing made a huge difference with regard to how they felt overall, how severe their symptoms were, and how quickly they started to recover after beginning daily rinses.  If only one rinse a day can be done, we found the best results were from doing so right before bed -- they slept far more deeply and with fewer breathing issues.  Our daughter found she felt best when she rinsed AM and PM.  Our rinse of choice was Xlear, but we also got great results from NeilMed.

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Masked Man

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Re: Quarantining in Shared Spaces -- how to keep others as safe as possible
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2024, 06:27:24 pm »
yet more precautions to add...

I remember hearing about some guy getting sick with covid who never left apartment in India and they thought he got covid from his bathroom because he shared same plumbing system/septic tank with others in apartment..

SUMMARY:
CAN COVID - 19 VIRUS ENTERS INTO YOUR HOME FROM A SICK PERSON’S TOILET DOWNSTAIRS ?DIY ( DO IT YOURSELF ) TO GET RID OF COVID THROUGH WASTEWATER PIPES :

LINK:
https://wet2drysolution.com/blog/can-covid-19-virus-enters-into-your-home-from-a-sick-person-toilet-downstairs.html
Masked Man

Masked Man

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Re: Quarantining in Shared Spaces -- how to keep others as safe as possible
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2024, 06:35:24 pm »
gv_twiitterpated's thread inspired me a little
(maybe I should create a separate thread for my theories but if gv_twiitterpated doesnt mind), here's my

Masked Man's side thoughts/commentary/theories on the matter:

On eating/drinking.

Once for 2 weeks, I quarantined in same house because I was worried that person may have been exposed and when other person wasn't in room I would be in my mask  microwaving food right before I ate it that may have been left out in the open briefly ..

....I'm not sure if that helped but given how many people  get sick at restaurants together I would be willing to bet germs land on the food and dishes that's out in open so I nuked my food plate in microwave in private before hustling into private room to eat just in case.

I have read "As COVID cannot tolerate 70 ° C temperature, within this time, it can be eliminated from the food surface. The time requirement can be shortened by using high-power microwave ovens".

Besides covid I venture to say this thread  applies to the art of dodging all airborne diseases. Airborne diseases contaminate surfaces and the germs live on those surfaces for different times depending on surface...

...I wear a mask and gloves outside when handling cardboard packaging from delivery guy even though delivery guy is not around  because cardboard and sweaty delivery guy equals germs.. They are holding something heavy they are exerting themselves like an athlete breathing heavy...they hold boxes on their shoulder right by their faces too. Packaging can be a dirty Kleenex if someone is sick and they cough, sneeze, laugh, sputter, or breathe heavy on it.

On Cellphones theory,
Think about the cellphone out in the open people sticking their wet mouths on it breathing in it and holding a cellphone up to the side of their face while hanging onto a dirty grocery store cart or something..Its almost as bad as a baby pacifier... the scenarios are endless.Maybe you you wear a mask in a grocery store and use your cellphone around all these people texting and then you get in your car and stick the cellphone to your unmasked  face..I mean think about contaminated surfaces and what you put in your face!



Also people touch their exposed faces, eyes, noses, and membranes all the time. 

Remember: Airborne diseases also contaminate surfaces.

There are studies on this I read somewhere covid sticks on cardboard for an average amount of time and aluminum for another set amount of time.. so it stands to reason that it get in clothes and hair too. So don't breathe in your clothes... It probably gets on outside of mask's filter as well if exposed to people so ideally take rubbing alcohol and wipe the outside of your mask to kill the germs it trapped if you were around people. If your mask catches germs then it stands to reason the outside of your mask and that filter is highly dangerous. How can anybody argue otherwise with that? The airborne disease's germ virus doesn't just evaporate immediately.. it sticks on stuff and contaminates surfaces...at least that's what many studies seem to indicate and all sick people out there are indicating.Never take off your mask and lick the outside of it...lol..
..Let's say you get home from doctors office or are around the maskless...try to throw your clothes in the wash while leaving your mask on ..then wash your hands and body ..like the nape of your neck runs some soap through your hair.. leave your mask on then grab a little rubbing alcohol and get a little on the outside of your mask which trapped the germs.. then get behind your ears a little.. finally take off your mask then jump in shower and soap up.. then whew you are probably safe. lol.. just don't breathe in the outside of your mask because that's the filter that trapped the airborne particle.

On vehicles and more clothes theory,
I hate to disappoint people but don't take your mask off inside your car! If someone is in a room of sick people and their clothes or the outside of their mask gets contaminated I really think they shouldn't take their mask off in an enclosed area like inside their car inadvertently exposing themselves to their clothes or even the back of their mask. That's just my theory but if airborne diseases contaminates surfaces then its going to stay on the clothes and if you sit in a car and take your mask off you might sort of breathe in your clothes or touch your face...Your standing in line and there's a sick guy standing too close to you breathing down your back your car seat is going to get sick too...you know friction of clothes rubbing together or on another object probably sets some of the particles free into the air again..just the way clothing  gets ruffled its like a dirty moist towl picks up germs like washcloth then ya plop down in a carseat creating a draft and air pockets that shoot and flap through your clothes right up through your collar germs flying everywhere ..in some way clothes are like wearing a dirty Kleenex with all their ruffles and the way it hangs and flows off the body... the fabric itself is almost like aa tight netting and a little filter that traps stuff wherever you go .... its like being in a room full of cigarette smoke and then you sit in your car that smoke permeates in your car and maybe viruses or germs are a little like that in that they don't just evaporate immediately  on surfaces before disinfection cleansing or with anti bacterial soap can occur.

Think about logic.. wash your hands yeah.. but not wash your clothes!? clothes are just external skin or hides from other animals or a layer of fabric.. think it can't hold germs? of course clothes can hold germs!


I'm no doctor but I'm using the logic and the things that stand to reason from the scientific statement that airborne diseases contaminate surfaces. If airborne diseases contaminate surfaces like electron microscopes have proven then I think my theories about getting sick from contaminated objects should be considered as likely to be true.

“Empirical evidence also suggests that clothing can mediate the transport and transmission of airborne viruses. For instance, clothing accumulated inhalable and respirable particles (≤10 μm) from indoor air in experiments, which were then resuspended during typical human activities.Apr 11, 2022“

Here’s some statements that pack a punch :
“How long a virus survives on a surface depends on what type of virus it is, how warm or moist its surroundings are, and the type of surface it has contaminated. In general, influenza A viruses remain infectious for up to 4 hours, but rarely more than 9 hours, while cold viruses can remain infectious for up to 24 hours.Oct 10, 2024“
… so yeah straight from a crowded grocery store into your car breathe in those clothes may prove dangerous!

So I look up:
how long would covid last on cloth surface?
here the results:
"Able to be picked up on hands & transferred to your nose, mouth, and eyes, Not broken down quickly when the virus lands on surfaces in the environment. The virus can be on surfaces for hours: 3 hours (fabric and porous surfaces), 4 hours (copper and wood), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic)"....

...So from this logic implies or it seems reasonable to assume that's long enough time to get sick from your clothes which are so close to your hands and your face. Its easy to believe if you sit in an enclosed space (like your car) after your clothes get germs on them and ya get a draft or heat rises from your natural body heat things rise ..the heat rises out your collar or you turn on the blower in your car and then ya use the cellphone touching everything .. yeah that's probably how to get sick.

It's just bound to be right on the front of your masks's filter..there so close ... it's moist area and you are sucking the air in a crowded place and covid's in the air.. If covid is going to be somewhere where else would it be other than sticking right there on the other side of your mouth and nose.. right there riding on the outside of your mask! Be careful with the outside of your mask as it might have covid on it!

Coming off of clothes theory: This is my personal theory and how I think about it coming off of clothes..its just helps me think about the mechanics of how a germ might ride on something and infect someone..its not actually how it works but it helps me think about it considering it is microscopic.... okay technically our masks shouldn't even work because the virus is so small it would go through the mask and ya need an electron microscope to even see it however what happens is this the germ attaches and rides on a tiny water droplet..like a vapor or mist and binds itself to that droplet which then can't go through the filter of the mask but it then sticks on the outside of the filter/mask and so then the droplet evaporates but the germ stays there on the filter or in the clothing like dry dry burr from sticker bush that gets so dry that it become like dust or a powder form and can be inhaled accidentally or it grips to one's fingers like those wretched tiny glitter things from decorative Christmas cards that get all over everything or even like polystyrene used in packaging; that stuff gives it a strong electrostatic attraction to other objects, causing it to readily stick to things..only we are talking teensy wincee tiny stuff like breathing in dust ya can't see at that stage. So that's how I think about it ...it rides in on a water droplet then clings to clothes and material and can get thrown back up into air like dust that can also make ya sick.

When I was a child my sensitive uncle showed me a replica of what germs can do by simply having me observe dust and lint before the sunlit window… You can see a semblance of this phenomena occurring with the naked eye and apply it to the likelihood of these similar happenings amongst microscopic entities. Go to a sunny window in a warm still room and merely shake a blanket or even your sweater or hair and you will see a universe of dust and lint dance before your very eyes in the light of a sunny warm window  floating rising and ebbing riding currents of air and heat. Watch and observe  the dust and the lint hover before your mortal eyes… I believe that’s how  a microscopic entity can behave and do .. temperature , friction, light affect these tiny particles giving them all a ride off and on surfaces and airborne.

Of course if its on a surface you can kill or dissolve the germ/covid particle with heat, microwave possibly or preferably with antibacterial soap, bit of Clorox, and possibly rubbing alcohol. I guess the germ /covid particle will die on its own after certain matter of hours depending on surface but I say kill it and eradicate the virus/germ particle if its on your clothes body , hair or surfaces you are liable to touch and breathe in especially before taking mask off to bring into your home.


Take care,
The Masked Man

P.S. Note to gv_twiitterpated,
Since this is your thread, If you prefer I can remove my reply and make a thread under my own name for my commentary but I thought your topic was so compelling I couldn't help but reply. Just let me know with a reply if you prefer me to remove my reply or if you think my comments are relevant and useful in your thread you need not reply... its up to you. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2024, 03:51:49 pm by Masked Man »
Masked Man

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Re: Quarantining in Shared Spaces -- how to keep others as safe as possible
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2025, 04:56:00 pm »
This is a great thread and I am sharing it on X and Bluesky!